Jazz is constantly in flux — preoccupied with its history while also restlessly seeking new turf. In recent years in New York, that has meant literally seeping into new sorts of spaces — apartments, nightclubs and so on — far from the jazz club mainstream.

Though this phenomenon is of the moment, it’s in truth part of a long history of tension in the genre about where the music is most at home, and most likely to grow. Some artists veer traditional, favoring hallowed venues. Others actively reject those rooms. And still others seek to inject outsider frisson into traditional spaces.

On this week’s Popcast, a conversation about the places where jazz has historically found homes, and the ones it’s spilling into; the musicians actively challenging old hierarchies; and the career of Meghan Stabile, the forward-thinking jazz promoter who died this month at 39.

Guests:

  • Giovanni Russonello, who covers jazz for The New York Times

  • Nate Chinen, editorial director at WBGO and the author of “Playing Changes: Jazz for the New Century”

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This story originally Appeared on Nytimes.com